Guests:
Chen Junshi: nutrition and food safety experts, Chinese Academy of Engineering.
T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.: Cornell University professor, known as
Moderator: Hello Hello, everyone, Welcome to Sohu guests chat rooms.
moderator (off Chun-fang): Branch of science by the Chinese Medical Association was organized and co-channel Sohu delicious healthy relationship with the startling discovery disease expert interviews now, first let me introduce the on-site guests:
world famous nutritionist, Cornell University professor, known as the Albert Einstein medical profession and found dioxin Campbell;
CPPCC National Committee, Chinese Academy of Engineering, Chinese Center for Disease Control researcher Chen Jun Shiyuan Shi;
Chinese Peking Union Medical College assistant principal, assistant president of China Academy of Medical Sciences, Chinese Peking Union Medical College of Continuing Education Professor Huang Jianshi; < br> Chinese Medical Association Deputy Secretary-General Miss Han Xiaoming;
China Correspondent Association of Media Development Center Director Mr. Wang Dalong;
the Chinese Medical Association science director of Miss Qian Yue;
work of the Chinese Medical science Branch Secretary, Health News Medical Technology Editorial Director Miss Wang Lingling;
sit there in the following publication for Professor Campbell, Club general manager of Beijing, Mr. Tu said Kun.
today's interview by me and Sohu health channel editor Miss He Bo chair.
any wave: you friends in the media, users Hello everybody! between our previous interviews with more to disease relationship, and today is very special, invited American professors, and professors in China so many reporters here, the teacher is very proud to Chun-fang together with the relevant host this interview, this interview is off Chunfang teachers contributed to the strong support , thanks to science branch of the Chinese Medical Association support.
moderator (off Chun-fang): Today, in addition to Beijing studio to a lot of media, there are two hundred mainstream media, including mainstream media in China, including all the capital cities of the media Friends like us to participate in this online interview.
speech for two guests to do some brief, Professor Chen Junshi safety of food and nutrition expert, he is the founder of China's food toxicology discipline, one of the China took the lead in the international community to contribute to drafting food safety regulations for China's accession to the WTO to make a significant contribution to Campbell, professor of dairy farms in the United States grew up, is the son of farmers, small milk cheese to eat fried foods, from He engaged in decades of research in which the protein was found in a study of the Philippines, children suffering from liver cancer, rich kids to eat more protein, eat animal protein more children get liver cancer, which he began a painstaking research, we interviewed started.
first ask Professor Chen Junshi,Adidas F50 adizero TRX AG “, the two countries is completely different from the table, the two countries thousands of miles apart, the two of you teach how to come together, how to adhere to 27 years to complete this project? this project was the Ministry of Health and Technology Progress Award, by foreign media as the epidemiological peak. Where is the meaning of its children? it conveyed what voice? tell What are we?
Chen Junshi: users Hello everybody, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to work with an old friend of 27 years, Professor Campbell passed along as a guest with you about the nutritional diet and chronic disease prevention and control of information .1980 I was a professor at Cornell University, Professor Campbell laboratory engaged in the diet and cancer research, our common vision in China a large-scale epidemiological study to explore people's diet in the end what happened with us cancer and other diseases, especially cardiovascular disease and diabetes, all in the end have nothing to do, so we in 1981 China's 24 provinces in 69 counties in the first large-scale surveys, our survey included 69 counties on the situation of thousands of dietary questionnaire and blood and urine sample analysis, there are a large variety of research tools to study a variety of indicators, completed the first step of our work. Then, in 1989, made a second repeat survey, the same 24 provinces of the same expanded to 69 counties in sociology, economics, some of the indicators.
through such an unprecedented scale survey, we concluded that only one, that is diet with China and the United States with the disease status of diet and disease status were compared, we agree with the Chinese-specific plant food based diet, that food, vegetables, fruits, legumes-based diets Compared to the typical traditional American diet, with animal food-based diets, chickens, ducks, fish, meat, eggs, milk-based diet is more beneficial to people's health, more favorable to the prevention and control of chronic diseases, including cancer , diabetes, hypertension, stroke, etc. Of course, some areas lack of nutrition is another thing, not the focus of our research, we study focused on the identification of such a comparison and found that the Chinese diet than in the U.S. current There are many health advantages.
host (Bo He): superiority in what areas?
host (off Chun-fang): Campbell, Professor and Professor Chen Junshi of the book was published in the media the world over newspapers, and call it the pinnacle of epidemiology, said the report has a surprising finding, in the end what is startling discovery? please explain to us, Professor Campbell.
Campbell: Chinese food is better because Because the nutritional characteristics of Chinese food that has all the nutritional food, Chinese food is that it is the nutritional characteristics of vegetable foods, so the better. plant-based food and animal-based food and nutrition is not the same It has a variety of different foods of the cellulose, while it has many antioxidants and other chemical elements, as well as different types of proteins and other various fats, etc. When we take into account all plant food the characteristics of different nutrients, and animal-based foods which nutrition is not the same when we compare the characteristics of a variety of food and nutrition and the relationship between disease, we found in plant foods than animal foods nutrition nutrition is better.
host (Bo He): It is not to say that eating vegetable foods is more conducive to health?
Chen Junshi: Yes, I can Campbell's answer then expand on, He has clearly described the food in China and the different characteristics of the United States, if we combined the people of China and the United States occurred in terms of disease, we can show the advantages of Chinese food, which means that China at least in the 1980s, we crown The prevalence of heart disease is very low, a relationship of coronary heart disease and cholesterol, cholesterol in rural China is much lower than the average American, why? is because the Chinese people eat is vegetable foods in China's diabetes China's women's breast cancer, male colon cancer, etc. are so important in China than the United States the incidence is much less.
our conclusion is very simple, it is more of a place and a local comparison not convincing, we use the 69 counties in China to more specific information, then it is very convincing. So why in the past people did not find, not the past did not know, and we provide the first this is more fully evidence to explain such a difference between our two countries is caused by the occurrence of chronic diseases is important because different, perhaps because it is not all.
host (Bo He): vegetable foods is not equal to a vegetarian?
Chen Junshi: vegetable foods is not equal to a vegetarian? Campbell a relatively unique perspective.
Campbell: vegetarians eat there often is in addition to vegetables, fruits, corn, these plant food, including eggs, dairy products of these things. plant foods including vegetables, grains, corn, fruits, etc., does not include eggs and dairy products, so I do not like to use the word vegetarian, and willing to plant food.
Chen Junshi: I can further explain why he does not like to use a vegetarian. vegetarian this meaning in different countries,Adidas F50 adizero, different people which is not the same meaning, you will often encounter a lot of people vegetarian, such as India, Many Indians are vegetarian, but he is drinking milk, so according to our scientific classification of vegetarians can be divided into pure vegetarians do not eat any animal that is, do not drink milk, do not eat fish, there is a kinds of so-called feeding vegetarians eat eggs, fish and even some people also call themselves a vegetarian, so from a scientific view, the concept of a bad definition of vegetarian, so he likes to vegetable foods, it is clear to vegetable foods can have varying degrees to one hundred percent vegetable foods.
moderator (off Chun-fang): This morning, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Professor Campbell has done a very wonderful speech, about four a discovery, Shiyuan Shi Chen Jun was also very wonderful translation, and today there are a lot of media in the hope that Campbell can put some of the more popular, about his discovery.
Chen Junshi: The issue of a vegetarian, I am willing to go further to elaborate, Campbell views expressed in this morning and he said that we have ample evidence that plant food-based diet for the prevention of chronic disease is beneficial. is not a must, in the end how much to eat by plant food is good, this depends on your own choice. his own case as an example, he is willing to eat one hundred percent of the plant food from the teacher's introduction just off Chun-fang, we can know that Professor Campbell Farm children were born, grew up eating meat is the milk, after the study is no longer eat any animal food, because he not only knew from the concept of plant food-based diet is good for health, and he personally felt that I not care about animal's delicious, I do not feel good and I think that my mental outlook, physical activity is very good for the body and if I eat 90% of the plant food it is difficult to grasp, since there is no inappropriate uncomfortable, it is easy to implement, why not eat one hundred percent of the plant.
but it does not mean that I advocate all the world's people eat one hundred percent of the plant food, if people are willing to according to their tastes, their own habits, their hobbies to choose, it is justifiable, but the key is to plant food is the main principle of this concept can not be changed.
moderator (off Chun-fang): Campbell finished four after the discovery of a stone ripple.
Campbell: based on the perspective of plant foods, from a scientific point of view, I would say the closer you are to eat more plant foods you will be healthy, ie diet composition which accounts for the more plant food, the more healthy, but when I say eat more plant foods in the more health, referring to things not to say that one hundred percent eat more healthy foods, but according to the current study, according to many related study, the more plant foods to eat more healthy when I say that plant food is good, I found that based on their own scientific research laboratory, and based on many of my colleagues in the medical profession on clinical findings, to plant mainly food, from my research and from my friends in the process of clinical research is incredible I found very good results, I am willing to do something to explain.
on the characteristics of healthy plant foods, the first It is a different disease in different degrees have different health effects.
Chen Junshi: that is the same plant food, grain, legumes, fruits, vegetables, these same plant food, they are surprisingly similar for different chronic diseases have a role in protection and prevention, cancer, coronary heart disease is clearly not a disease, there are different causes, but similar to plant food-based diets for different chronic diseases, the cause different chronic diseases have different degrees of similar benefits.
Campbell: I just talked about is the food plant-based foods on the health beneficial effects of breadth, not only the breadth, depth also, depth of meaning that such as for heart disease, plant-based foods can reverse the evolution of the original extent of heart disease, and even in some cases can be cured of heart disease has occurred while plant foods can also reverse the 90% m95% of the two diabetes, I know that Type II diabetes in China has also become a serious health problem.
I have a friend in the United States as a doctor, his doctor for 35 years, and two days ago I happened to have a conversation with him,Adidas Porsche Bounce S2, he treatment of some patients with Type II diabetes, these patients eat a lot of drugs, the patient stopped his medication, after a few days later, when the effect I was a scientist in my lab which I found in animal experiments, plant-derived foods can promote or slow down the cancer, slow the progress of the disease, which is the example that I plant food for the health effects of the depth and breadth.
and I say plant food on health also affect the depth of the plant foods have the ability to control the expression of genes for the disease.
Chen Junshi: On the genetic problems that may require a little explanation, and we all no matter what kind of cancer disease, coronary heart disease, stroke, diabetes , are the people inside the body of genes played a decisive role in the ultimate expression of a gene leads to disease. Campbell talked about the plant food-based diet is beneficial to inhibit or slow down or even stop a more sensitive gene expression,Adidas Bounce congratulations are in order, that is to use the words of the people, you have a susceptibility gene for a disease is not terrible, the key is that it does not express the expression, if you do not have this gene expression does not matter, it is hidden , lurking is not terrible, terrible expression.
gene expression or no expression is affected by many factors, his research found that, at least in mice found to such a number of plant food-based in terms of diet on rats, mice fed with plant food you feed mainly, it can inhibit or slow down for such a number of tumor susceptibility gene expression, thus less cancer, this is an example. not just cancer, other disease is the same.
susceptibility genes have not terrible, if you use a healthy lifestyle, especially the emphasis on plant foods based diet, then you can not latent susceptibility gene expression or delay the expression.
Campbell: The third example,Nike Mercurial Vapor Superfly III TF, the control of some plant food chemical toxicity and carcinogenesis has a huge role. on the health effects of plant food for the breadth and depth of the same type of food can prevent disease, can have an enormous impact on health, we can clearly see the health effects of plant food for the breadth and depth, especially in the biochemical level, this effect can be seen, especially some of the chemical characteristics of plant foods for disease prevention and health effects is very common, but these effects were also Shiyuan Shi Chen Jun and I do research institute in China to gather evidence to further support.
host (Bo He): We have just half an hour discussion, including friends and our experts have also identified a number of plant food with disease relationship, then the concept of health is not merely to disease especially for the Chinese people, we have a site asks such a question, In addition to ill health is not called healthy, strong body is a manifestation of health, foreigners are eating meat, they tall tall, very strength the Chinese people are plant-based foods, this state is not unhealthy? should not we be learning to foreigners, should be more intake of some of the meat, so that I'm a little higher, especially the young sprouts do not develop into the situation? Professor Chen to the users, please look at the resolution the problem.
Chen Junshi: This is a common problem this morning with a more vivid example, someone asked the Chinese football team in Asia is not as red meat less, wait a minute I think Campbell can be used vivid examples to illustrate for everyone the world there are a large number of sports on the world champion, with the words we have is a vegetarian, you may not believe it, he can tell you identified by name.
In addition, we can not just look muscular, we depend on long-term, just about a real impact on health, that the impact of chronic disease because the vast majority of people even now we have the vast majority of Chinese people, including in rural, 70 % more than a few people die from chronic diseases, is dead in the tumor, diabetes, hypertension, stroke, 80% of the city a few people die from chronic diseases, we have to look at the impact of these diseases, but can not see the momentary muscular, If you are not ready to do bodybuilding champion, then.
Campbell: I support the view that just Chenyuan Shi, our athletes can eat plant proteins have more muscle, the muscle does not necessarily mean good muscle I This morning's speech also mentioned an example of professional football players in the United States does have strong muscles, as always eating animal food, but they have to pay a high price, that among them were cancer, heart disease risk is much higher than the average person, it is not worth it. American football is the world's best football players average life expectancy is only 53 years old. On the contrary in terms of many world-class athletes to eat plant foods because it is the main muscle tension is high, but also very healthy, do not pay as high a price.
American football players average life expectancy is only 53 years old, then refers to eat meat to build muscle athletes, not all American football athletes, if not to eat meat to live longer mainly from a wide range of plant foods on the health impact, from a medical point of view, we can now use food to control disease and promote health, not just is to rely on drugs, this is one of the most important issue and my opinion is very important of these is my long-term work and Shiyuan Shi Chen Jun, subject to a number of traditional Chinese medicine and philosophy affect the results.
Chen Junshi: specifically Chinese medicine's philosophy is to treat the person, the concept of Western medicine is treatment and if doctors can not make a diagnosis can not prescribe medicine that can not be opened without prescription, it is a person's health status of a regulation, of course, do not say that modern medicine This is what he said he thought the concept of Chinese medicine that is mentioned in front of him for such a plant-based foods to prevent disease, to mobilize their forces with the body fight disease.
Campbell: I want to emphasize that the use of the overall concept, the concept is a comprehensive food and other factors together can play a significant role, which is the whole concept of traditional Chinese medicine and is consistent.
moderator (off Chun-fang): We Now many of my friends have experienced this problem, do not know, or more than a bite to eat more food than meat, If we are afraid Naomanchangfei more meat, but if more than a bite afraid Mianyoucaise, think of an ascetic, no meal meat, tasteless meals feel very painful. Chen Yuanshi is not, please talk to us, after what impact, we believe that the traditional Chinese diet is good, then our food pagoda is how to answer this question? Chen Yuanshi said, vegetarian is learned, let him give us introduce this knowledge.
Chen Junshi: Our topic today is the subject of plant food-based diet is good for health, just that we have talked about why, what are the benefits. We also talked about vegetarian issues, that is not one hundred percent plant food to eat for people in general terms, what do we recommend? Chinese Nutrition Society has launched a Chinese resident of dietary pagoda is a very important tools, but also reflects the plant food based diets, because this pagoda is used for the average person, the lowest level of the pagoda, then if we see that food, then the top layer of fruit and vegetables, we all know the end of the pagoda is a large, more The more pointed up, then the food and vegetables, fruits, just beyond, then it is some animal food, and then above the oil and sugar.
this pagoda to you for guidance and meaning of referring to things we just talked about food-based dietary pattern is the same, animal food should be small, should be more plant foods, this is for everyone concerned, but for a people, you can choose, in the end you this much greater than the top end, have already talked about. a little more plant food is good, nutritional animal food from the terms not absolutely necessary, but still have to choose an individual. the meaning of this pagoda I would like to illustrate this point, the pagoda is applicable for all the people, in understanding how in the end after the principle of flexible use of dietary pagoda, then you have according to their own situation.
plant food such as mentioned by Professor Campbell, the more the better conducive to health, so I think this combination of two layers of meaning to be complementary. pagoda is all their own based on such a principle, according to their preferences and their own health and choice for deployment.
host (Bo He) : Professor Chen, we just have a site users would like to ask you a question mm color mixed vegetables, fruits supplemented! - This is the whole structure balanced nutrition theory, and we do that, our nutrition is enough? way of saying Well, according to Professor Campbell just mentioned, the most recent scientific research on such a theory was further elaborated, because there did not see in which mainly inside the grains, fruits inside and vegetables are inside , chicken, fish, meat, eggs are on the inside, the food on our world, there are so many, in the end with a choice of what kind of time with a reasonable, based on our repeated talk about today, such a theory in which we choose to plant more food, other than that grains, vegetables, fruits and legumes.
host (Bo He): If you reach such a balanced diet also need to add some nutritional supplements such as the current number of health care products, including vitamin supplement agent.
Chen Junshi: this principle, our nutritionist will always be the reasonable food with as the first, which is said to Campbell, if the grain, vegetables, fruits, legumes with Well, then, it has thousands of species of nutrients in it, nutrition is very complete. under normal circumstances is not to say you must use nutrient supplements, not to mention health food, it is another thing. But I want to beat him to death can not say that nutritional supplements, because people have different circumstances, such as pregnancy, when people may need to be more iron, which is a special physiological periods.
some because of certain special circumstances may be missing something, the lack of certain micronutrients vitamin Ye Hao Ye Hao, then he may need to add that we are generally speaking not from a nutritional stand by vitamin mineral supplements to ensure that you are full of nutrition, but on a reasonable variety of food with.
Campbell: I would like to talk about vegetarian diet will lead to a debilitating problem, history, we will often frail and vegetarian linked, This is mainly because most of the past vegetarians are relatively poor, can not afford to eat meat, but you may not notice the place is often in poor public health conditions are relatively poor, so easy to get sick easier for these reasons weak, but now the situation is different, in modern countries,Nike Mercurial Victory FG, vegetarians intake of many plant species, not monotonous malnutrition, should be very good.
the same time I want to talk about nutritional supplements is China's vitamin and health products make a supplement in the past few years there have been many studies of information that some nutritional supplements is of no use, and some are even harmful. Generally nutritional supplements are an element in which a tablet it looks like to add a certain something good, but in fact this is not a nutrient, which is the pharmaceutical drugs, because our body is very complex, requiring a comprehensive system to add, this fact does not work to add a particular .
host (Bo He): Thank you, two professors, we are now living is also very rich, and able to eat the food is varied, including grains, fruits, dairy products are also a lot of the scene with a User ask two professors, lead to high cholesterol, this conclusion in the end is what? cancer, we would like to ask about Campbell, tell us what that conclusion? is not to drink the milk? including egg is not eaten?
Campbell: Based on my research lab, I find that truly casein promotes cancer development and progression, but we are talking about is people, people are not the same, on the casein from the Western scientific literature milk is indeed a problem, it can raise cholesterol, it effects even worse than saturated fatty acids also, it can cause the body's acidic environment so damage our body, the body protein to promote secretion of certain hormones, causing different diseases, these new research evidence, there are some old research evidence We can not fully understand is that all of the evidence are based on Western scientific literature, and Chinese food on a very small amount of milk in China, this volume is very small, so I did not say that the Chinese can not eat milk, But I can clearly tell you that milk is in the West is indeed a problem, I think this is the need to let everyone know.
I grew up in dairy, beef eating is to eat milk grew up, I very reluctant to see this fact, but I must tell you that this is a fact.
Jun-stone: and there are two problems, first is not, as some media put it, read report question, I think even though these two issues are linked, the best or separate in-depth analysis.
first question, laboratory comparison, a group of rats eating casein protein that the milk inside, another group of rats eat vegetable protein, and then two groups of mice at the same time it is yellow Aspergillus toxins carcinogens such a carcinogen, which is a resounding carcinogens experimental results showed that rats eating casein liver cancer than eating plants long This group of proteins of liver cancer in mice much longer than I think you can not simply say that milk spurs cancer, scientifically that is such an animal model in which, what model? yellow Aspergillus toxins.
if no yellow Aspergillus toxins, whether milk or vegetable protein will not cause any cancer, but this means an animal model under these circumstances, it is clear that increased casein yellow Aspergillus toxins, that enhance its role in promoting cancer. trigger that is not right to say, it increases your risk of cancer occurrence, it is right, this is an animal and this animal is not just a means of casein kinds of means, more importantly, cause the animal food, is not eating animal food for an enhanced role in cancer.
second question is about the eggs and milk to the problem can not eat, I just agree with Professor Campbell say, he's the evidence cited by the U.S. diet are based on the situation, the American diet is 70% of protein is animal protein, in which there are at least half of the half or milk and dairy products come from,Nike Mercurial Vapor Superfly III, that is, that 35% m40% of Americans eat protein from dairy products, so that the milk for the adverse health effects. Everything has a volume of the Chinese people do not know what kind of volume.
should say, milk which in addition to protein, or have some other good things, but we are not to a comprehensive evaluation of nutrition, I can agree with this information, Professor Campbell, if the Chinese milk and dairy products a day to eat like Americans so much, then,Adidas JS Wings 2.0, We do not advocate that, we do not advocate the Chinese people to emulate the United States eat 70% of animal protein and there are 35% m40% from milk that is consumed in large quantities. come back to us or to adhere to plant food for the the main meal, milk if it is 3% m5%, then there is nothing wrong, but the West is a inspiration to us very important because we are now pocket money, and our Western diet, the trend is obvious of their information to us knock a wake-up call, we can not take their old, I think this is the correct attitude toward the world nothing can be absolute or absolutely very, very good, no problems, it is impossible.
Campbell: According to our point of view of people doing scientific research, information from different sources, but the results of scientific research is not based on personal like it or not, Believe it or not, can not decide how I am going to do , but according to the objective, can not say that scientific research can be drawn for each thing absolute answer, but from my own research and my own understanding of research results, I tend to not eat dairy products I myself and my wife and my five sons, five grandchildren, we do not eat dairy products, this is my personal preferences and tendencies.
especially for children I do not encourage them to eat dairy products If a child ate a habit, a habit big will eat, and eat more and more, this is not good. This is my personal opinion, I also like to say here about the benefits of milk, at least Many people believe that milk or in the discussion of the benefits that milk is good for at least two reasons, first that the milk can promote the growth of children so that children grow faster, grow taller and secondly, each of us require calcium, milk can provide a lot of calcium, tall and with calcium, the bones and teeth stronger, which is second on the benefits of milk, many people believe so, in fact, tall kids, grow faster will bring many problems, so this is not necessarily good. grow fast, tall can cause precocious puberty, precocious puberty is a problem, there are girls menstruation early, causing early menstruation girls with high levels of sex hormones, we all know the high level of sex hormones and breast cancer and uterine cancer are related.
not we need calcium? we compared the calcium intake found that many are from calcium in dairy products, has now been found that high calcium intake actually brought the high incidence of osteoporosis. on research in this area at least 20 years of scientific research literature here, but more than that caused by intake of calcium bone higher incidence of osteoporosis. Finally, I would like to talk, I know this is not the only thing, I believe I know this is based on the results of scientific research, but we may need more discussion, so that we can understand these things that we can reach a consensus.
Chen Junshi: I think I now have to make some different points of view, to such a lively atmosphere, I totally agree with contemporary nutrition there is sufficient evidence to prove the child's growth and development is not the sooner the better, we are still in the developing countries in the economic situation much better than the original, we now have found an increasing number of large newborns, children born weighing too much that we often say this ...